Thursday, 30th April 1914: Ragsdale Lawyer Denies Bribery Charge, The Atlanta Georgian

2 ACCUSED BY PASTOR REFUTE STORY

Minister Who Asserts He Was Given $200 for Affidavit Said To Be Weak-Minded.

The sensational story of Rev. O. B. Ragsdale, of the Plum Street Baptist Church, that he was given a bribe of $200 to make an affidavit detailing an alleged confession by Jim Conley, which he claimed he overheard while in an alley behind the National Pencil Factory, and that the affidavit was drawn and sworn to in the office of his attorney, Arthur Thurman, was vigorously assailed by Thurman Thursday.

"If Ragsdale says I was present when he made the affidavit he is a liar," said Thurman. "I know when the paper was sworn to, but I was not present and do not know who was. I do know, however, that the affidavit was made in Luther Rosser's office in the Grant Building, and that Stiles Hopkins signed it. When it was made I was in my own office in the Healey Building."

"I know something also of the events leading up to the making of the affidavit. Ragsdale had been telling people about overhearing the confession for several months, but he always claimed he couldn't find Barber to substantiate his assertions. He said Barber left town shortly after they were in the alley and heard the confession, and that he didn't know where the man was."

Never Spoke of Bribe.

Thurman declared that in all his conversation with Ragsdale the preacher had never mentioned to him that he had been offered $200 to sign the affidavit.

"Ragsdale's assertions that he was led into signing the affidavit through necessity is preposterous to anyone who knows anything of the circumstances. He owns property around Atlanta valued at from $10,000 to $15,000. If you'll look on the records at the courthouse you'll find that about two months ago he transferred to his two sons property that is easily worth $250 an acre; in fact, he refused to sell it to me for $200 an acre. I know nothing of anybody giving Ragsdale $200, and frankly I don't believe anybody did."

Carlton C. Tedder, a private investigator attached to the office of William M. Smith, Jim Conley's attorney, who also was named by Ragsdale as one of the men who induced him to make the affidavit and as being present when the document was signed, denied the preacher's statement Thursday.

"Ragsdale's statement that I helped induce him to make the affidavit is an infamous lie," said Tedder, "and the old man knows it is a lie. Here is my connection with the matter: Some time ago Arthur Thurman, during a conversation, told me he had a preacher client who insisted that he knew something about the Frank case. I kept my eyes open for Ragsdale then, but was never able to find him and have a talk with him. On April 23 I dropped into Thurman's office to see him about another matter, and Ragsdale came in. Thurman told me, aside, that this was the preacher client he referred to. I got to talking to Ragsdale about the Frank case then, but he became suspicious and wouldn't discuss it.

"After a few moments Ragsdale

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PASTOR SAYS HE GOT $200 FOR AFFIDAVIT

Lawyer of Ragsdale Denies That He Had Any Part in Deal Charged by Client.

Continued From Page 1.

and Thurman left the office, and I understand they went over to see Dan Lehon, of the Burns agency. I was not present when the affidavit was made, and I do not know where it was made, although I understand it was drawn and signed in Luther Rosser's office."

The report of the Plum Street Baptist Church committee asserted that the minister confessed on Monday night that he had perjured himself and that he then tendered his resignation. The committee said the preacher told them that in the presence of his attorney, Colonel Arthur Thurman, Detective Burns, Detective Tedder and R. L. Barber, the affidavit was secured from him upon the offer of $200 at a time when he was sorely pressed for money and that he did not realize what he was doing. He said that when he did realize the enormity of his offense he went to Solicitor General Dorsey and told him his affidavit was false. Ragsdale did not tell the committee who offered him the bribe.

At the meeting at the church on Wednesday night the pastor's resignation was accepted without a dissenting vote. The acceptance of the resignation was followed by a rather warm discussion as to whether the disgraced minister should be disciplined as well as ousted from the pulpit. Kindly spirits prevailed, however, and members of the congregation volunteered subscriptions to pay Ragsdale's salary.

Mind Said To Be Affected.

It was said by several members of the congregation that the deposed minister had not been himself mentally since a stroke of apoplexy some time ago.

Mr. Ragsdale is 60 years old, with grown children. His salary at the Plum street church has been $75 a month.

Detective William J. Burns again has been compelled to leave Atlanta, being called this time to Oklahoma in connection with a Government land case. He left Wednesday.

Both sides, it is said, are ready for the resumption of the hearing before Judge Ben Hill Friday morning.

Burns Report Likely Friday.

It is said the defense may decide to amend its motion to introduce the notes said to have been written to Annie Maud Carter, a negress, by Jim Conley. This, however, would not necessitate another postponement of the hearing.

The final report of Detective Burns, already in the hands of counsel for Frank, will, it is expected, be submitted at the hearing Friday.

The entire office force of the Solicitor has been at work on the case since its postponement.

3 ACCUSED BY PASTOR REFUTE CHARGE

William J. Burns, in a long distance telephone message to The Georgian Thursday, denounced as an unmitigated and outrageous lie the charge involving him in the "confession" allege to have been made by Rev. C. B. Ragsdale that he the former pastor of the Plum Street Baptist Church, was bribed to make an affidavit accusing Jim Conley of the murder of Mary Phagan.

Mr. Burns was in Chattanooga on his way to Oklahoma to testify in a Government land suit when he learned of the charges. Over the telephone he said:

"I am coming back to Atlanta immediately. This Ragsdale story is a most cowardly lie by a cowardly liar. You can not denounce it too strongly. I had absolutely no connection whatever with the affidavit."

At the Ragsdale home the remarkable efforts to shield the pastor who was forced to resign his charge as a result of the sensation were continued. No outsider has been allowed to see the minister, and his son Thursday again declined to allow a reporter to even get a glimpse of the man. In fact, every statement published about Ragsdale's mysterious connection with the case has been through third parties. An astonishing veil of mystery has been thrown about the entire affair.

Called Police "Plant."

One of the remarkable aspects of the latest development in the case is the fact that C. C. Tedder, who is involved in the charges, is attached to the office of William M. Smith, attorney for Jim Conley, and a close friend of Chief of Detectives Lanford. He denied Thursday that the alleged bribery was a police "plant," although the affair bears many of the earmarks of the dictograph sensation in the early days of the case. He also denied that he had helped induce the old man to make the affidavit telling of the alleged Conley confession.

The son, W. A. Ragsdale, who has absolutely refused to let anyone see the old man, said Thursday his father's mental condition was not sound. He was inclined to believe the bribe plot story, and said that threats to expose a land deal in which the minister was concerned had evidently figured in the alleged effort to make him swear falsely.

Arthur Thurman, Ragsdale's lawyer, who was also named in the confession, like the others concerned, denounced the story as a complete lie.

"If Ragsdale says I was present when he made the affidavit he is a liar," said Thurman. "I know when the paper was sworn to, but I was not present and do not know who was. I do know, however, that the affidavit was made in Luther Rosser's office in the Grant Building. When it was made I was in my own office in the Healey Building."

"I know something also of the events leading up to the making of the affidavit. Ragsdale had been telling people about overhearing the confession for several months, but he always claimed he couldn't find Barber to substantiate his assertions. He said Barber left town shortly after they were in the alley and heard the confession, and that he didn't know where the man was."

Never Spoke of Bribe.

Thurman declared that in all his conversation with Ragsdale the preacher had never mentioned to him that he had been offered $200 to sign the affidavit.

"Ragsdale's assertions that he was led into signing the affidavit through necessity is preposterous to anyone who knows anything of the circumstances. He owns property around

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PASTOR'S CHARGE THAT HE WAS GIVEN BRIBE IS DENOUNCED BY BURNS

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Atlanta valued at from $10,000 to $15,000. If you'll look on the records at the courthouse you'll find that about two months ago he transferred to his two sons property that is easily worth $250 an acre; in fact, he refused to sell it to me for $200 an acre. I know nothing of anybody giving Ragsdale $200, and frankly I don't believe anybody did."

"Ragsdale's statement that I helped induce him to make the affidavit is an infamous lie," said Tedder, "and the old man knows it is a lie. Here is my connection with the matter: Some time ago Arthur Thurman, during a conversation, told me he had a preacher client who insisted that he knew something about the Frank case. I kept my eyes open for Ragsdale then, but was never able to find him and have a talk with him. On April 23 I dropped into Thurman's office to see him about another matter, and Ragsdale came in. Thurman told me, aside, that this was the preacher client he referred to. I got to talking to Ragsdale about the Frank case then, but he became suspicious and wouldn't discuss it."

"After a few moments Ragsdale and Thurman left the office, and I understand they went over to see Dan Lehon, of the Burns agency. I was not present when the affidavit was made, and I do not know where it was made, although I understand it was drawn and signed in Luther Rosser's office."

Notary Tells of Affidavits.

F. P. Callaghan, a notary public in the office of Smith, Hammond & Smith, No. 509 Grant Building, was the man before whom the affidavits of Ragsdale and Barber were sworn.

"Burns was not there. Neither was Tedder," said Callaghan to The Georgian Thursday. "I read the affidavits over to the men, word by word. I was unusually cautious because of the many mix-ups that have come in the Frank case.

"I asked each of them if they understood everything that was contained in the affidavits and if every statement was the truth. Then they raised their right hands and swore to the truth of the affidavits."

"The affidavits were taken in the private office of Mr. L. Z. Rosser on the seventh floor of this building. There were present when the minister and his companion swore to the affidavits, Dan Lehon, John K. Tippett, a stenographer for the Rosser-Brandon firm, and myself. Mr. Rosser was in the building, but not in his private office at the swearing of the men. Stiles Hopkins, erroneously reported to have been the notary public before whom the affidavits were taken, was not present."

Mr. Tippett said that the two men presented themselves in Attorney Rosser's office and professed to have information of value to Frank. They were questioned closely by the lawyer, who was impressed by the fact that Ragsdale was a minister and that he gave high references as to his probity and good standing.

After Mr. Rosser had the essential details of their story he dictated affidavits to Tippett, who transcribed them on the typewriter. They were then read to the two men and Notary Callaghan was called in and again went over the affidavits with the men.

Grand Jury Probe Rumored.

In courthouse circles it is rumored that the new Grand Jury, to be chosen next week, will be asked by Solicitor Dorsey to investigate the cases of the several persons who have repudiated their testimony and affidavits given in the Frank case. Solicitor Dorsey Thursday would not discuss the matter.

The present Grand Jury is scheduled to meet Friday, deliver its presentments to Judge Ben Hill and be discharged.

The Grand Jury yet to be chosen will be sworn in May 11.

The report of the Plum Street Baptist Church committee asserted that the minister confessed on Monday night that he had perjured himself and that he then tendered his resignation. The committee said the preacher told them that in the presence of his attorney, Colonel Arthur Thurman, Detective Burns, Detective Tedder and R. L. Barber, the affidavit was secured from him upon the offer of $200 at a time when he was sorely pressed for money and that he did not realize what he was doing. He said that when he did realize the enormity of his offense he went to Solicitor General Dorsey and told him his affidavit was false. Ragsdale did not tell the committee who offered him the bribe.

At the meeting at the church on Wednesday night the pastor's resignation was accepted without a dissenting vote. The acceptance of the resignation was followed by a rather warm discussion as to whether the disgraced minister should be disciplined as well as ousted from the pulpit. Kindly spirits prevailed, however, and members of the congregation volunteered subscriptions to pay Ragsdale's salary.

Mind Said To Be Affected.

It was said by several members of the congregation that the deposed minister had not been himself mentally since a stroke of apoplexy some time ago.

Mr. Ragsdale is 60 years old, with grown children. His salary at the Plum Street church has been $75 a month.

Both sides, it is said, are ready for the resumption of the hearing before Judge Ben Hill Friday morning.

Burns Report Likely Friday.

It is said the defense may decide to amend its motion to introduce the notes said to have been written to Annie Maud Carter, a negress, by Jim Conley. This, however, would not necessitate another postponement of the hearing.

The final report of Detective Burns, already in the hands of counsel for Frank, will, it is expected, be submitted at the hearing Friday.

The entire office force of the Solicitor has been at work on the case since its postponement.

Frank Makes Another Appeal.

Frank Thursday issued another appeal "to the people of Atlanta," in which he said:

"I have been advised not to make further appeal for justice to the people, but I can not bring myself to believe that the people would deny me the small privilege of pleading my case before them.

"I am told that there are many people who do not hesitate to say that I ought to be hanged whether I had a fair trial or not, whether I am guilty or not, but I can not bring myself to believe that they represent a majority.

"I have had no trial in the courthouse. Only the pretense of one. The question put up to the jury in my case was not 'Is Leo M. Frank guilty,' but it was 'whose life shall it be, Frank's or yours,' and they decided accordingly. I do not so much blame the courts and jurors for denying me justice and a fair trial. It is the people themselves who are responsible. It is they who have compelled the judges and the jurors to decide as they have. I feel that I have a right to appeal to the people, because they are the last court of this State, higher and more powerful than all the other courts."

Recalls the Testimony.

"Was there ever a case in a Georgia courthouse when the jury rejected the testimony of eight good white women in favor of the word of a degraded negro? Conley not only contradicted me, but also Miss Corinthia Hall, Mrs. Emma Clarke Freeman, Mrs. J. A. White, Miss Rebecca Carson, Miss Helen Kerns, Miss Mary Pirk, Miss Dora Small and Miss Julia Fuss."

"It was a part of Conley's lie that after he had carried the dead body to the basement, he and I were talking in my office and were interrupted by the appearance of Miss Corinthia Hall and Mrs. Emma Clarke Freeman at about 20 minutes past 1. Now, these ladies were on the stand and swore unequivocally that they left the factory for the last time that day at 11:45 a. m., or, in other words, an hour and 35 minutes before the hour given by Conley, and they furthermore swore that when they left there remained in the factory Arthur White, Mrs. White, Mrs. May Barrett, Mrs. Barrett's daughter, Henry Denham, the stenographer and myself. Now, why should the jury take the negro's word in preference to that of these white women on a simple question of fact? There was no chance for a mistake on their part. It was a square issue between them and the negro, their oath against his oath. And, if Conley was lying on this point, how can any part of his story be believed for a moment? Then take Miss Helen Kern's testimony. She testified that at 1:10 p. m. she saw me at the corner of Whitehall and Alabama streets, the very moment when Conley swore that he was helping me dispose of the body."

"Miss Rebecca Carson testified: 'On Monday morning I said to Jim Conley, "Where were you on Saturday? Were you in the factory?" He said, "I was so drunk I don't know where I was or what I did." I also overheard a conversation that he had with my mother, when he said, "Mr. Frank is just as innocent as an angel."'

Conley Makes Denial.

"Conley testified: 'I didn't tell Miss Carson on Monday that I was drunk all day Saturday. I didn't see her at all on Monday. I don't remember telling Miss Carson on May 1 that Mr. Frank was innocent.'

"Miss Mary Pirk testified: 'I talked with Jim Conley Monday morning after the murder. He took his broom and walked right out of the office and I have never seen him since.'

"Conley testified: 'I didn't have any conversation with Miss Mary Pirk on April 28, and she didn't say that I committed the crime, and I didn't shoot out of the metal room after she said that.'

"Miss Dora Small testified: 'I saw Jim Conley on Tuesday. He was worrying me to get money from me to buy a newspaper, and he often would come and ask me for copies of the paper before I got through reading them. They were extras. He would even get two of the same edition. He would take it and run over there and sit on a box by the elevator and read it. He told me, "Mr. Frank is just as innocent as you are."'

Again a Conley Denial.

"Conley testified: 'I didn't ask Miss Small on Monday what the extra had in it, and I didn't say Mr. Frank is just as innocent as you are.'"

"Miss Julia Fuss testified: 'Talked with Jim Conley Wednesday morning after the murder. He was sweeping around there and asked me to see the newspaper. He told me he believed Mr. Frank was just as innocent as the angels from Heaven.'"

"Conley testified: 'I didn't ask Miss Fuss on Wednesday for an extra. I didn't tell her that I thought Mr. Frank was as innocent as the angels in Heaven.'

"I say to the people of Atlanta that if the jury had not been intimidated by the fear of death and been left free to express its convictions, it would never have rejected the testimony of these eight white women in favor of that of a negro. Let it be admitted that most of these ladies were in the employ of the National Pencil Factory. Would that circumstance make the word of a negro more reliable than theirs and more worthy to be believed by twelve white men a negro who was trying to save his own neck? No wonder Judge Roan declared that he was not convinced of my guilt."